Pankaj mishra (Jhani, India, 1969) He is in a hurry. He has been in Madrid and his agenda for a few days, marked by his participation in the Ideas Festival, he has been full of commitments. It is not for less. This novelist and Indian essayistwhich resides in the United Kingdom, has established itself as one of the most critical voices in the face of the western predominant narrative. A tireless defender of The silenced voices of the Global South.
Member of the Royal Society of Literature and regular collaborator of The New York Times, The New York Review of Books, The Guardian o The New YorkerMishra publishes now The world after Gaza (Gutenberg Galaxy), a book in which he reviews the last decades of international history and points out the conflict in the Palestinian enclave as A turning point Towards a new world order. “This genocide is a reflection of the moral collapse of our democracies,” he says.
For the author, recent violence is not an isolated episode, but part of a long chain of inequalities, cultural misunderstandings and interventions that have encouraged Both resentment Like polarization.
PANKAJ MISHRA: “There is no doubt that what happens in Gaza is a genocide”
During his brief conversation with The Spanishdenounces Western hypocrisy and underlines the urgency that citizens act to stop the massacre. “How can we allow this barbarism? “he wonders, convinced that the damage inflicted in Gaza is already irreversible, With or without peace agreement. “Israel’s goal has always been to destroy the possibility of the existence of a Palestinian state,” he says sharp.
Does something change that a United Nations commission has concluded that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza?
It depends on whether there is political will among European leaders. All tests have been there: many organizations, such as Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch had already said the same days before. We knew it and now there is no doubt that what happens in Gaza is a genocide. It is confirmed. But we do not see signs of any concrete action by the European Union to stop and punish Israel for what it is doing.
What is that inaction? You speak in your book of historical guilt, but is there anything else?
The fault played a role at the beginning; Now what there is is a huge investment in Israel by rich in Europe and the US. There are corporate lobbies and Zionists who have bought entire political classes. In the US, politicians openly receive money from them. What we see is a massive rot in the heart of Western democracies, where people sell their soul and mind in exchange for the support of these groups. Gaza should not be seen as something isolated, but as a reflection of the crisis in our own societies.
What is needed for the West to increase the pressure to Israel?
More public pressure, more people raising their voice, protesting, manifesting and making clear their political leaders who have to represent the democratic will of the peoples. In most European countries, you want to stop Israel, not to sell weapons and be punished. The surveys confirm it. But politicians do not respond. That shows that democracy itself is corrupted in much of Europe. The pressure of public opinion must be transformed into concrete actions.
Interview with Pankaj Mishra.
Here in Spain, which has taken actions against Israel, there were concrete mobilizations, such as the controversial proper manifestations in the cycling return. The result was an argument about whether “mixing politics and sport” …
Those who say that politics and sport must be separated do not know the history or sport or politics. They have always united. The 1936 Olympic Games were boycotted because they were held in Berlin, the capital of fascism. Spain boycotted them. The apartheid regime in South Africa was boycotted at multiple levels, including the most famous rugby and cryket teams in the country. More recently, Russia was expelled from several international competitions. Talking about sports without politics is absurd and dangerous, because we are fighting for basic rights, such as the right of Palestinian children to live, to survive. Or because our own societies, so that they do not fall under the influence of those who support a genocide. What happens in Palestine is already affecting everyone: it feeds the extreme right in our societies. So we must abandon the illusion that politics can separate from sports, literature, music or journalism.
He mentions the inaction of the West, but what tells me about Arab countries? None have taken a firm posture.
It is a mistake to idealize Arab countries. His elites are also corrupted, they look for money, power and alliances with the US and Europe. His statements in favor of Palestine are superficial, without policies or actions behind. They are despotic and corrupt elites for a long time. We should not expect anything else.
“Gaza is a reflection of the crisis in our own societies”
In his book he devotes an entire chapter to Germany and how he has gone from anti -Semitism to philosemitism. How do you interpret that Germany is today one of Israel’s main support in Europe?
We are seeing how the entire desnazification project of Germany, to overcome its Nazi past, was a great failure and that it really only managed to hide many crimes. There were many cover -ups. The Nazis remained active in German political and cultural life for a very long period. The mentalities of Nazism were still alive. And today, with the rise of the extreme right in Germany, we see how those trends return. As in the United States, where white supremacy never died and has now resurfaced. In Germany the same thing happens: I think that German nationalism, German ethnic and racial supremacism are dramatically resurfaceing. And we must be prepared for Germany to really become a very barbaric place.
The extreme right, however, is booming throughout Europe, not only in Germany.
But the German is a very disturbing society, which is rearming at the same time. He says there is a threat of Russia and that is why you have to rearm. They have the extreme right emerging. The combination of the extreme right and rearms predicts a disaster in a country like Germany, which was already responsible for two world wars and the holocaust, and is now involved in the first genocide of the 21st century.
Israel justifies his attacks on Gaza as a way of defending Hamas’s terrorism. There are those who maintain that that is what makes the war in Gaza different, to the war in Ukraine, which did have the virtually unanimous support of the West.
The Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have been for decades under Israeli military occupation. There is no independent Palestinian state. Israel is the occupant and has responsibilities towards that population. The UN has said. The Palestinians fight for freedom and dignity. Israel is the historical aggressor, which has stolen territory for decades. There is no matter of defense here: Israel has a responsibility for the people of Gaza and the West Bank, since it is officially the occupant of those territories. If we compare with Russia, I would say that Israel has been stealing territory for much longer than Russia.
Interview with El Español.
What do you think is the goal of Israel de Gaza?
Destroy the possibility of the existence of a Palestinian State, annexal the occupied territories and create a state of the great Israel —eretz Israel. They will not stop there. They are stealing Lebanese territory. They are stealing Syrian territory. This is a country that, at this point, is out of control. If you don’t stop, we will all be in trouble. We are facing a very serious global conflict, perhaps a third World War if this country is not stopped. This is the situation in which we are right now. We must recognize it clearly.
Do you think that the inaction of Western Embroeder to Netanyahu?
Absolutely: it feels unpunished. While the Americans continue to support him and while the Europeans remain prostrate before Trump, he knows that they will never do anything to dislike. Netanyahu knows that Europeans will not go against Trump. They are afraid of him. They are cowards. So Netanayhu is happy: he does what he wanted to do for a long time and goes out with his. And he is taking advantage of war is to stay in power; That is something he has done from the beginning. But, at the same time, he now knows that he has the opportunity to create that great Israel and that, over time, people will forget and adapt to the new reality – picked up, killed, eradicated. And Israel will also exist in the west, in the West Bank and in Gaza. “Get used to” that is your calculation.
And Israeli society? Wouldn’t it be fair to separate it from government intentions?
It is too simplistic to blame only Netanyahu or the extreme right. Israeli society is radicalized and most approve what happens in Gaza: famine, bombings, expulsions. The Palestinians have been dehumanized to the point that this is acceptable for many.
The Indian author during his interview with El Español.
How do you explain that radicalization?
It is a process of decades. The Israelis are educated with the idea that they are always in danger, that the neighboring Palestinians and Arabs plan another holocaust. That creates paranoia and a society willing to kill and expel your neighbors to survive. We can no longer blame the leaders or the extreme right, we must recognize that it is a radicalized society.
In his book he explains that as a young he defended the initial ideals of Zionism, but changed his mind. When do you think the project was distorted?
Coming soon. From the beginning, when it became a militant project that ignored the population that already lived there. Hannah Arendt warned in the 40s that Israel would fall into racism, and so it happened. Today we see the culmination of decades of radicalization and intolerance. It is a reflection of a global moral collapse. I think about even darker to come.
What makes this war different from other ignored or exploited tragedies?
That democracies support it. Political leaders and journalists in the US and the United Kingdom support it. And, for the first time, the perpetrators of a genocide proudly disseminate their crimes on social networks, in Tiktok, in X. They presume to kill, torture, destroy universities and schools. Something like that had never happened before.
And the damage in Gaza? Are they reversible?
I don’t believe it. It is too late to repair what Israel is doing in Gaza. We can only expect this calamity not to spread even more.
Is there space for hope?
Yes, but only if we create it. Protesting, pressing politicians, organizing, educating and informing with facts. Hope does not exist on its own, we must build it. Otherwise, you know, everything will remain the same as before.